Legislature(2007 - 2008)BUTROVICH 205
04/18/2007 04:00 PM Senate RESOURCES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| Confirmation Hearing: Board of Fisheries | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | SB 44 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | SB 80 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
April 18, 2007
4:19 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Charlie Huggins, Chair
Senator Bert Stedman, Vice Chair
Senator Lyda Green
Senator Gary Stevens
Senator Lesil McGuire
Senator Bill Wielechowski
Senator Thomas Wagoner
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
Confirmation Hearing: Board of Fisheries
Larry Edfelt - Juneau
Howard Delo - Big Lake
Claude Webster - King Salmon
CONFIRMATIONS ADVANCED
SENATE BILL NO. 80
"An Act relating to allowable lease expenditures for the purpose
of determining the production tax value of oil and gas for the
purposes of the oil and gas production tax; and providing for an
effective date."
SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD
SENATE BILL NO. 44
"An Act making a special appropriation for a grant to the Alaska
Railbelt Energy Authority Joint Action Agency to construct a
wind farm on Fire Island and transmission lines to connect the
wind farm to existing electrical infrastructure in Anchorage;
and providing for an effective date."
SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
No previous action to consider
WITNESS REGISTER
LARRY EDFELT
Auke Bay AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Nominee to the Board of Fisheries.
HOWARD DELO
Big Lake AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Nominee to the Board of Fisheries.
CLAUDE WEBSTER
King Salmon AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Nominee to the Board of Fisheries.
ROD ARNO
Alaska Outdoor Council
Anchorage AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported all three nominees.
RICKY GEASE, Executive Director
Kenai River Sport Fishing Association
Kenai AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported all three nominees.
RIK BUCY, Chairman
Kenai River Sportfishing Association
Soldotna AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported all three nominees.
BILL GIFFORD
Soldotna AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported all three nominees.
MONTE ROBERTS
Kenai River Professional Guide Association
Kenai AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported all three nominees.
RON RAINEY
Kenai AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported all three nominees.
GARY HOLLIER
Kenai AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Mr. Webster and Mr. Delo, but not
Mr. Edfelt.
PAUL SHADURA, Executive Director
Kenai Peninsula Fishermen's Association
Kenai AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Mr. Webster, but not Mr. Delo or
Mr. Edfelt.
GREG BRUSH
Kenai AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported all three nominees.
JOHN JENSEN, Member
Board of Fisheries
Petersburg AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported all three nominees.
STEVE WINSTRIP
United Cook Inlet Drift Association
Kenai AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported Mr. Webster, but not Mr. Delo or
Mr. Edfelt.
MEL MORRIS, Chairman
Board of Fisheries
Kodiak AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported all three nominees.
ACTION NARRATIVE
CHAIR CHARLIE HUGGINS called the Senate Resources Standing
Committee meeting to order at 4:19:01 PM. All members were
present at the call to order.
^Confirmation Hearing: Board of Fisheries
4:20:03 PM
LARRY EDFELT, Juneau, said he was first appointed to fill out
the remainder of Rupe Andrews' term; Mr. Andrews passed away a
few weeks ago. Mr. Edfelt said he has lived in Juneau for 36
years and is retired from the Alaska Department of Fish and Game
(ADF&G) where he worked form 1063 - 1986. After that he operated
a charter fishing business for 12 years. Since then he has been
fully retired and participates in the Southeast Alaska marine
recreational fisheries. He is a previous member of the Board of
Fisheries from 1992 - 1997.
CHAIR HUGGINS asked if he had been labeled as a sport or
commercial fisherman.
MR. EDFELT replied that most people recognize him as a sport
fisherman, but he has many commercial fishing friends from all
over the state.
CHAIR HUGGINS directed attention to the Kenai Sports Fishing
information and then asked what areas he worked in for the
ADF&G.
MR. EDFELT answered that he worked with the Division of
Commercial Fisheries from 1963 - 1980 and spent the last five
years as a deputy director. Then he transferred to the Division
of Sport Fishing and Habitat. He ended his career serving in the
Division of Boards. Most of his career was serving the Board of
Fisheries and before that the Board of Fish and Game.
He explained that before there was a Division of Boards, each of
the divisions provided staff to support the board process and he
was that person within the Division of Commercial Fisheries. So,
he has probably been to more Board of Fisheries meetings than
anyone else in the state over the last 40 years.
CHAIR HUGGINS asked what talents or what things he has an
appetite to work on that are challenges he sees for the state.
MR. EDFELT answered that he has always been a fan of the Board
of Fisheries process that has always belonged to the fishermen
rather than the bureaucrats and he wants to protect that
process. He wants to preserve the maximum opportunity for public
input in its decision making.
4:23:48 PM
SENATOR WAGONER asked where he sees a problem with the Cook
Inlet escapement that has resulted in a decrease in size and
number of smolt out-migrating each year. He understands the
figures now show the probability of hardly any return in 2010.
MR. EDFELT replied that he was just appointed a month ago and
didn't have recent scientific information from Cook Inlet. He
expected that the board would get into this issue seriously next
fall in the regular Cook Inlet cycle of meetings.
4:25:36 PM
SENATOR WAGONER asked what the outcome of Monday's Board of
Fisheries meeting was.
MR. EDFELT responded that there was a petition to amend the Cook
Inlet management plan. All the commercial fishermen were for it
and the sports fishermen were opposed. His position was that
allocative issues are better addressed in cycle rather than at
an emergency teleconference and he wanted to hear from all of
the public on the issue. It wasn't an emergency in his view, but
other board members felt differently.
SENATOR WAGONER said he knew that some commercial members had
been dismissed from the board for having a violation and noted
that Mr. Edfelt had disclosed a violation concerning a king crab
pot and he asked if anything was in statute about members having
a violation.
MR. EDFELT replied that interpretation has been relaxed. At
least two commercial fishermen board members have past
violations as well.
4:27:52 PM
SENATOR STEVENS wanted to hear about the violation.
4:28:09 PM
MR. EDFELT explained that he owned a king crab pot with two
other gentlemen. He asked ADF&G if all names were needed on the
buoy and was told that only one name was preferred. He put his
name on it and his friends set the pot two hours early. He got
the ticket and paid it.
4:29:20 PM
SENATOR STEDMAN asked what kind of makeup the board has and
where is it going.
MR. EDFELT replied that it has been harder to represent all
areas and all fisheries, but representation has been pretty well
spread out geographically. Even a subsistence member has served
for the last few years.
SENATOR STEDMAN asked what direction membership is going in
terms of sports versus commercial.
MR. EDFELT replied that back in the days when there was one
board, it usually had one sport representative and the rest were
mostly commercial or processing interests, which was appropriate
for the time. It is appropriate to have more sport fishermen now
and they have about half the seats. He is happy with that
makeup.
SENATOR STEDMAN asked for his background on boards and
commissions.
MR. EDFELT replied he was on boards for the Territorial
Sportsmen and the International Game Fish Association, but no
sport fishing organization for many years. He has mostly been
retired.
SENATOR STEDMAN asked if he had ever been a member of a policy-
making board.
MR. EDFELT replied this is the most important policy making
board he has been on.
4:33:39 PM
SENATOR STEVENS asked what his reaction was to a letter that
said that a Board of Fisheries with his appointment would make a
split of 5 to 2 in favor of sport and charter interests and so
voices of commercial fishermen would continue to be unheard.
MR. EDFELT replied that he thought it was an unfair comment. The
board at this week's meeting had 3 general sport representatives
counting himself and 4 that were more closely associated with
the commercial fisheries. The board has had a 4/3 split for
quite a while now. He didn't think commercial fishermen objected
to sport representation, but they wanted objective people who
would make good policy decisions.
CHAIR HUGGINS asked how his name bubbled to the top.
MR. EDFELT replied that commercial fishing friends twisted his
arm when Mr. Andrews retired for health reasons and so, he
applied.
SENATOR STEVENS asked who he considers his constituents.
MR. EDFELT replied that he hoped to represent the fish and the
process, not any one group.
SENATOR STEDMAN asked his thoughts on handling the biomass. If
it's suppressed to a level where it impacts the commercial
fishermen, should the sport fishermen be impacted as well, for
instance.
4:38:23 PM
MR. EDFELT replied that Southeast has had a commercial red crab
fishery for a long time and Juneau is lucky to have it close by.
Naturally people were attracted to that because they didn't have
to go very far to catch them for personal use. At first it was a
small fishery, but it became important commercially as the
population of Juneau discovered a pool of king crab right out
their back door. Eventually commercial fishermen had to be
reduced in order to accommodate that local catch.
4:40:06 PM
SENATOR STEDMAN asked in situations like this with pressure from
commercial groups, should a portion of the commercial quota be
allocated to personal use, even though a move like that would
delay buildup of the stocks - just so they can have both
fisheries.
MR. EDFELT replied that the stock has been healthy enough to
have both fisheries most years. But if the stock is so depressed
it can't have a commercial fishery, it shouldn't have a personal
use opening either. He understands that the allocation in this
area has already been made.
4:42:16 PM
SENATOR WAGONER related that to salmon escapement on the Kenai
River. If the escapement is coming in under prediction and the
commercial fleet is shut down and not allowed to fish at all,
what would be his attitude toward the personal use dip net
fishery in the sport fishery? Should it be shut down at the same
time until stocks show there will be enough to maintain the
numbers necessary for escapement?
MR. EDFELT replied for an unexpected in-season shortage the
ADF&G would close all fisheries.
SENATOR WAGONER said that is not what always happens in Kenai
because there is so much pressure on the fisheries politically.
He stated that he is in favor of the fish.
4:44:34 PM
CHAIR HUGGINS thanked Mr. Edfelt for his testimony and invited
Howard Delo from Big Lake to testify about why he wanted to be
on the Board.
HOWARD DELO, retired ADF&G employee from Big Lake, said he spent
21 years with the department - 15 years in the hatchery program
and 6 years with the boating access program in the Division of
Sport Fish. He didn't apply for this position, but he was asked
to serve.
He said he could bring an objective view to board. He doesn't
have an agenda and he is familiar with the issues. He has no
violations. He was elected to the Mat-Su Fish and Game Advisory
Committee a few years ago, but he has resigned those positions
to avoid a conflict.
CHAIR HUGGINS asked if he attended the earlier Board of
fisheries meetings.
MR. DELO replied no.
CHAIR HUGGINS asked what he is labeled.
MR. DELO replied sports fisherman. He believes in the
department's mission statement. His first concern is looking out
for the resource and he appreciated the governor's phrase of
"abundance."
4:49:54 PM
CHAIR HUGGINS asked if anyone is sponsoring him for this job.
MR. DELO replied no, but he had received a call from the
governor's office asking him if he would be willing to serve on
this board. He has talked to her a few times on a casual basis.
SENATOR STEVENS asked him to address the question of fairness on
the board expressed in numerous letters.
MR. DELO replied that the bulk of the letters to the committee
about him appear to be form letters and to his knowledge he had
never met or spoken with any of the people who wrote them. One
letter even mentioned that he should be confirmed because of his
voting record, but Mr. Delo chuckled that he had never sat on
the board and didn't have a voting record and he didn't know
where the unfair comment came from. However, he admitted that he
writes the outdoor column for the local newspaper and in it he
had pointed out some differences between commercial and sport
fish interests. Some people might have viewed that as being
biased towards sport fish. "All I did is lay out the fact as
they exist and basically let the readers draw their own
conclusion."
SENATOR STEVENS asked how Mr. Delo could assure him that he
would allocate the resource fairly.
MR. DELO simply stated that he would manage in favor of the
resource and he doesn't have an agenda.
4:55:09 PM
SENATOR STEDMAN asked if he had been on policy-making boards
before and he wanted a little more detail on the allocation
issue when a fishery gets suppressed and should allocation shift
from one group to the other.
MR. DELO replied that he had been nominated for the Board of
Directors of the Upper Susitna Shooters Association in the
Talkeetna area and the election is this Friday. To the
allocation question, he answered that if the numbers of fish are
such that the managers feel that commercial interests need to be
closed, he would agree that the personal use should also be
closed.
SENATOR WAGONER referenced one of the articles and asked him to
explain how he knew that a good number of coho salmon destined
for Valley rivers were intercepted because the department quit
doing scale samples years ago and there is no way to identify
those fish.
MR. DELO answered that he had some discussions recently with two
different retired fish and game biologist who were involved in
various aspects of Cook Inlet fisheries management. Both of them
were more oriented toward the northern district and he asked
them what they thought were legitimate interception rates. He
heard 70 percent from one individual and 80 percent from the
other who couched it in different terms of exploitation rates of
the various fisheries in Cook Inlet.
He said the northern district set netters have had very
restricted fishing opportunities and the fish getting into the
rivers in his area must have been caught somewhat further down
the Inlet, which would seem to indicate the central district has
a rate of 70 to 80 percent of the returning stocks of the
northern district fish.
SENATOR WAGONER asked if he is aware of the management plan and
how the fish have been managed in the central district for the
last five years.
MR. DELO replied yes.
SENATOR WAGONER said he has fished all those years except last
year in the Cook Inlet central district. Inlet-wide openings
were allowed very rarely and generally when very few fish were
available and he would be hard-pressed to accept an interception
rate of 70 to 80 percent of the fish heading to the northern
district.
He said that everyone realizes there's a finite number of fish
to satisfy an unlimited number of people and there's never going
to be enough to make everybody happy. He asked how Mr. Delo
would address this problem.
MR. DELO agreed that human nature is such that the more you have
the more you want and he supported making a fair allocation
between the different user groups, but the necessary brood stock
to propagate the next generation of fish would need to be there
first.
SENATOR WAGONER said there is definitely a problem up there.
MR. DELO agreed and said that it would have to be figured out.
5:03:54 PM
CHAIR HUGGINS thanked Mr. Delo for testifying before the
committee today and asked Mr. Webster to give an overview of his
qualifications and tell the committee why he wanted to serve.
CLAUDE WEBSTER, resident of King Salmon, noted that his resume'
covered his background and offered to answer questions and that
had been asked to apply by different user groups. He said he had
been a set netter on the Kvichack River since 1984 and he has
seen it go from the largest sockeye salmon run in the world to a
stock of concern and if he had any agenda it would be to bring
the Kvichack River back. He is well aware of the subsistence way
of life and what happens when a stock disappears.
CHAIR HUGGINS asked him how he would do that.
MR. WEBSTER replied when they saw the Kvichack stock declining,
the advisory committee along with ADF&G and the board came up
with special harvest areas and management plans for the Naknek,
the Egegik and the Ugashik Rivers to help prevent interception.
They restricted sport fishing in the Iliamna Lake area so that
all user groups contributed to conservation.
5:07:24 PM
SENATOR MCGUIRE said she spent her life fishing in the Bristol
Bay fishery and wanted to know what he would do to not repeat
what has happened there in the last two decades.
MR. WEBSTER replied that his personal opinion is that in 1984
the department decided to manage the Kvichack differently by
doubling and quadrupling escapement goals that had been set and
used for decades. There were record returns for two cycles and
then the third cycle crashed. The department has never
officially said that it made a mistake, but it did reduce
escapement goals back down to where they used to be. He said he
hoped that lesson would not have to be learned again.
5:09:01 PM
CHAIR HUGGINS asked how he would balance that with his
responsibility to the entire state.
MR. WEBSTER replied in areas he is not familiar with he would
rely on the ADF&G for scientific and historical data for
allocation issues.
CHAIR HUGGINS said he has been labeled as a commercial fisherman
and asked what he would say to make sports fishermen more
comfortable.
MR. WEBSTER related that he personally put in a proposal at the
last Bristol Bay meeting to open up the Drift Lake in Katmai
National Park that had been closed for no biological reason. He
believed from his position as co-chair of the Naknek Kvichak
Advisory Committee that local sport fishermen think he is, at
least, fair to all user groups.
5:11:01 PM
CHAIR HUGGINS announced public testimony.
ROD ARNO, Alaska Outdoor Council, supported Mr. Delo, Mr.
Webster and Mr. Edfelt as nominees to the Board of Fisheries.
The Council's number one goal in selecting members for the Board
of Fisheries is that they are aware of the process and these
three gentlemen certainly are.
5:12:29 PM
RICKY GEASE, Executive Director, Kenai River Sport Fishing
Association, Kenai, supported all three nominations. The
Association believes each one will be fair and will bring
different experiences and qualifications to the board that would
make it productive.
RIK BUCY, Chairman, Kenai River Sportfishing Association,
Soldotna, supported all three nominees.
5:13:46 PM
BILL GIFFORD, Soldotna, supported all three nominees commenting
that they obviously have extensive experience in their
respective areas.
5:14:19 PM
MONTE ROBERTS, Kenai River Professional Guide Association,
supported all three nominees.
RON RAINEY, past chairman of the Kenai River Sportfishing
Association, strongly supported all three nominees.
5:15:19 PM
GARY HOLLIER said he is a set net commercial fisherman in Cook
Inlet and supported Mr. Webster. He said board members should be
fair and impartial and look at data and make allocative
decisions based on that data. He said the jury was out on Mr.
Delo and Mr. Webster; but he had serious concerns about Mr.
Edfelt because he just told Senator Wagoner that he didn't have
much information about Cook Inlet over-escapement. But at
Monday's teleconference he talked about it for five minutes and
said arguments that over-escapement is biologically harmful to
river systems seemed overblown. He did not think him suitable to
be on the Board of Fisheries.
5:17:01 PM
PAUL SHADURA, Executive Director, Kenai Peninsula Fishermen's
Association (KPFA), said he wanted to comment on conflicts of
interest. He said the legislature must be assured that
individuals are impartial and willing to listen to the
stakeholders on an issue and then make unfettered decisions. He
remarked that the previous actions and histories of two
individuals lead one to believe "that the verdict would be
guilty before they even started deliberations" and the crime
would be being a commercial fisherman in Cook Inlet. He asked
why two extremely biased commercial sport interest nominees are
needed in Cook Inlet and why they are needed on the board. He
asked where the fairness is for representation of the other
regions of the state. He said KPFA supported Mr. Webster, but
not Mr. Edfelt or Mr. Delo.
5:18:53 PM
GREG BRUSH, Kenai sport fisherman and Kenai River guide,
supported all three nominees. He said it doesn't matter how the
nominees are labeled, they are objective about making their
decisions.
5:20:03 PM
JOHN JENSEN, Petersburg commercial fisherman, said he is a
member of the Board of Fisheries and supported all three
nominees. He had very high regards for Mr. Webster as being
level-headed and knowledgeable on the issues he worked on with
the board. He hadn't known Mr. Edfelt very long, but he worked
with him on one regulatory meeting and was pleased with him. He
has been involved with the Board of Fisheries before and is well
respected and has a history with ADF&G that can be very useful.
He hadn't met Mr. Delo, but he was satisfied with his testimony
today.
5:21:23 PM
STEVE WINSTRIP, United Cook Inlet Drift Association, said Cook
Inlet commercial fishermen are disappointed with the nominees
because it had been assured that there would be a commercial
fishing representative nominated since board hadn't had one on
it since 1975. He also pointed out that Mr. Delo had a
prearranged agenda as evidenced by his vote at an advisory
meeting to create a conservation corridor through the center of
Cook Inlet during July 9 - 25. If that happens, Mr. Winstrip
said, there would not be a commercial fishery in Cook Inlet. He
was concerned that the Board would not be fair and balanced with
either Mr. Delo or Mr. Edfelt, but he supported Mr. Webster.
5:25:28 PM
MEL MORRIS, Chair, Board of Fisheries, Kodiak, supported all
three nominees. He noted that the Board just lost three core
board members and these three names would do a lot to replace
that experience. He said that being fair is all a board member
can be asked to do. He didn't think people could be identified
as sport of commercial or whatever, because as Mr. Edfelt
pointed out, they are representatives of the resource.
5:28:05 PM
SENATOR STEVENS thanked him for his service and asked if it was
his experience that members of the board in general see
themselves as representing the resource and neither sport or
commercial fishing interests.
MR. MORRIS replied yes. He also commented that this is a
difficult forum in which to make snap judgments about whether
people are going to advocate for or against an issue or if they
are going to be fair. He said:
Clearly all three people raise to the top.... In the
five years I've been on the board, I haven't seen an
advocacy that anybody was trying to accomplish. I
think everybody listens and makes up their minds when
final deliberations are done. Some may understand some
issues better than others, but that doesn't mean
that's what you would support. We've all voted for
various issues - sport fish, commercial, and
subsistence issues and we're cognizant of our
responsibilities.
5:31:09 PM
CHAIR HUGGINS said he intended to move all three of the names
forward. He said unless there is an overriding legitimate
reason, he would support the governor's appointments. He
encouraged people who had concerns about who is going to be on
the board to seek a seat themselves and take the destiny of the
fishery in their own hands.
5:32:10 PM
SENATOR STEDMAN moved to forward the three names with individual
recommendations. There were no objections and it was so ordered.
CHAIR HUGGINS added that this doesn't reflect intent by any of
the members to vote either for or against the confirmation of
individuals during any further sessions.
There being no further business to come before the committee,
CHAIR HUGGINS adjourned the meeting at 5:32:58 PM.
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